This post is just as guilty of making sweeping assumptions about guys, as it claims guys make about girls. The first major assumption is that guys feel like women are obligated to return feelings when a guy has professed his love/whips out his junk. This isn’t true. Receiving that “second place” trophy is just an unsatisfying replacement when a guy is romantically interested in a girl, and most of the time not even a feasible option. If a guy has fallen for a girl, it’s kind of difficult to maintain a friendship with that person without there being an awkward imbalance. Too often I’ve heard the “I just value our friendship too much!” excused used (by both guys AND girls) when a more accurate reply would have been “I’m just actually not interested in dating you.” The former sets up the false expectation that he/she WOULD date this person and is interested, they just have this silly friendship getting in the way. Looking back to the guy-friend that tried to kiss you, would you say that you didn’t pursue him because you were just friends? or because you just weren’t romantically attracted to him?

The whole article is highly reductive and turns any kind of romantic interest (on the guy’s part) into an issue of sex. That’s all guys want. This assumption is seen by this infuriating quote: ” If a man is nice to a woman, it is because of the possibility of having sex with her. If a woman is nice back with out sharing the same expectations, she’s leading him on, she’s putting him in the friend zone, she’s a bitch or a prude or a cunt.”

As a guy, this is offensive. STOP TREATING ME LIKE A PIECE OF MEAT THAT JUST WANTS TO HAVE SEX WITH OTHER MEAT.
Additionally, the bit on this “game” guys supposedly play to win “women prizes” is just as simplistic. It leaves no room for guys who are romantically interested in pursuing a relationship with a girl. Granted, I can see why a large portion of a girl’s experiences with dudes is largely based on that, because, well, dudes can be asses. But dudes have feelings and pursue girls cause they think they’re pretty cool, too.

I understand the sentiment of this post, and appreciate it, but it could do well without the sweeping generalizations.

This whole post fails to show any perspective at all, and uses terrible black and white assumptions about men and women alike. It also cherry picks evidence and clearly is written from a place of frustrated emotions. Just because something is frustrating for you doesn’t mean guys are assholes just for being frustrated. Its normal to be attracted to someone that you like and then be frustrated when that attraction isn’t returned…in my experience this happens to both genders and isn’t fair to stereotype based on what has happened to you in particular. I’ll give you the argument that people should be better about holding emotions in when frustrations arise, but people can’t be blamed for natural emotions.

Please take the time to realize that no one is perfect, and there isn’t always someone at fault. When it comes to relations people are going to get hurt, and if you want to be friends with men that you aren’t attracted to, they may be hurt and frustrated by that fact. Hopefully they are mature enough to get past it and still be friends, but they certainly shouldn’t be blamed for being into you and not receiving the same in return.

From now on everyone will try to be exactly what you want them to be!

I appreciate the article and certainly try not to commit these fallacies, but it is just as possible that some women are unable or unwilling to recognize the kind of attention they are receiving until they are directly confronted about it.

Cher sent herself flowers in an attempt to make her more desirable to the guy. She only “got over it” when she found out that he was gay. And her feelings for the (different) boy she’s referring to in the photo were most certainly requited. Whether or not the friend zone exists, please use a more relevant example.

I posted this to reddit r/mensrights. Enjoy your ad revenue and flood of angry men lol :).

DON’T LET THE BROOM OF SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS HIT YOU ON THE ASS ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR

I’m thinking this is wrong in so many places. ..where do I begin?

Right here will do: “The reason the friend zone gives me such a bad taste in my mouth is women are under no obligation to return romantic feelings for a man and the existence of a “friend zone” suggests otherwise.” First, I agree that women are under no obligation to return romantic feelings for a guy. Done. Easy, just as a guy is under no obligation to return romantic feelings for a woman, for for a guy, or a woman for a woman. There’s no obligation of reciprocation on anyone’s parts ever, is my point here. But, the existence of a “friend zone” does not suggest, imply, or infer in anyway that reciprocation is obligated. It instead suggests that reciprocation didn’t happen. Where do you get that there is some sort of obligation implied? I’d like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

Then there’s this: “A man claiming to be “friend zoned” by a girl suggests that the only reason he was nice to her in the first place was for the potential of sex — and once she makes it clear that she isn’t interested in having sex with him, he gets the second place trophy of her dumb friendship.” Second, you swapped from “romantic feelings” to sexual desires, and the two are often not connected. Either way, the issue is not one of reciprocation but rejection, and rejection hurts. No matter who you are, what your gender or race or personal beliefs, being rejected by someone you are attracted to romantically or sexually hurts. In that atmosphere of hurt, remaining friends, even with the best intentions behind the offer to do so, can feel like a “consolation prize,” and I think women need to clarify more that it isn’t one, in their eyes. Maybe the speech should be “I’m not attracted to you in that way, but I do enjoy your company and conversation; I would like to remain friends with you because I place great value on those things” instead of “No, that’s not going to happen, but we can still be friends!” Phrasing it the second way only reinforces the “consolation prize” mentality, on both sides.

Next up: ” How many times have you heard a guy say that women only date “bad boys” and he’s single because no woman appreciates how god damn NICE he is? I wish I had a dollar for every time a guy has said something like that to me.” Yes, this happens a lot. Yes, the Nice Guy gets rejected for the jerk a lot, and the friend-zoned Nice Guy gets to hear her complaints about the jerk all the time. As a former full-time and now only part-time Nice Guy, I can recall many many hours of listening to women complain about the jerks they were with and how they wished they could find a Nice Guy, but when they did, they rejected him and kept going for jerks. It happens. If you don’t want to hear Nice Guys complain about it, then, I don’t know, maybe try telling them you don’t want to hear it?

Fourth on the list of wrong: “Of course, these Nice Guys aren’t nice at all! They’re just incredibly entitled: a Nice Guy thinks if he puts in the effort to be friends and listens to a girl talk about her relationships, then she owes him sex.” I think – actually, I’m quite damn sure – you are confusing hope with expectation. No guy, Nice or not, should ever expect sex as a result of simply being Nice. I think it is more a case of giving their time and energy and efforts in the hopes of something romantic or sexual blooming (and by the way, you started off with “romantic feelings” and haven’t mentioned them since; at this point, you are implying that all the Nice Guys really want is just sex, which is a sweeping and hurtful generalization). Besides, isn’t the hope of reciprocal attraction why anyone of any gender converses with an attractive person? How many people have you introduced yourself to and talked to without feeling any attraction at all?

And now for a total change of course: “If she doesn’t want to have sex with him, she’s a bitch. If he never talks to her about how he feels or she rejects him, he was Friend Zoned.There is no situation where the woman isn’t a shitty person for not wanting to sleep with him. ” WHOA! Let me clue you in a little bit: if a guy thinks a woman is a bitch for rejecting him, HE WAS NEVER A NICE GUY. A true Nice Guy might be stung by the rejection and move on, with or without her in his life as he chooses, but thinking she is a bitch for rejecting him? That’s not a Nice Guy, that’s an asshole in disguise. There is no situation? There is EVERY situation; no woman is ever a bitch or a shitty person, at least not to a truly Nice Guy, simply for not wanting to sleep with (or have a romantic relationship, something you mentioned in the first paragraph and seemed to have completely forgotten now).

The “Nice Guy” you knew was not a Nice Guy. He was an entitled asshole who thought you owed him something for his emotional and alcohol-based support of you. You’re bashing all Nice Guys based on the example of someone whom, and I do not think anyone here would disagree, was not a Nice Guy. He might have called himself one; he was not. I could call myself King of America; I am not. Self-definition does not a truth make.

And one last quote: “he put time and effort into being nice to her and if she does not wish to have sex with him it says something not about her but about All Women.” About this, I can only say that if a guy is nice to you with the (completely undeserved) expectation of receiving your affections, and then turns into a douchebag when you turn him down, and you go blog about how this says something about not just him but ALL Nice Guys, then you’re guilty of making the same sweeping generalizations that you claim all Nice Guys do. . .and that sort of prejudicial behaviour is detrimental to open discussion.

The Friend Zone exists, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

http://5secondfilms.com/watch/going-out-big

So true.

Friend zone does exist, and it can be a neutral term instead of this fraught concept… but maybe it’s too loaded to go on with it. Unlikely that it will drop out of the lexicon any time soon however. Literally, though, it’s the status you reach when the girl or guy you fancy just wants to be friends and you want something more. Simple as that.

Now whether or not you can handle that like a lady/gentleman is the wild card here. I sympathize with the author, there are a ton of false Nice Guys who harbor a lot of entitlement and hide their venom well. I think a lot of the male commenters here aren’t up on the archetype, which is not surprising because it seems to be ubiquitous as an accepted term only on certain types of blogs, which perhaps have not pervaded the culture yet.
I can only speak to the straight fellas here, but let me say this anyway: If you find yourself in a situation where a woman friend you like romantically doesn’t like you back, JUST SUCK IT UP and be friends with her, assuming you actually liked hanging out with her in the first place. Your butthurt feelings will pass. Maybe take a couple months off from hanging, even. Feelings are indeed serious business despite my blitheness there. One of my female friends at one point rejected my advances. I licked my wounds for a bit then got over it. Now we’re super tight buds!
In the meantime, find someone to date that you don’t know already. Don’t waste too much time trying to date your friends; it usually doesn’t work out.
Women, watch out for those 500 Days of Summer guys, that movie was the worst. (Summer wasn’t that interesting and that dude was a choad.)
Good luck everybody!

lol the ending was perfect … because I have played an embarrassing amount of Sims and had to delete it because I was no longer doing much else… Good article though, (a lot of) men have a huge entitlement problem… Too bad they are not the ones reading this!

Reason # 5,398,756 to be glad I’m a guy. I wouldn’t have the patience to deal with that bullshit.

And to all the Nice Guy commenters: of course it’s valid to feel shitty when someone turns you down. That’s not what the author is complaining about. What’s not valid is when you decide that turning you down was “wrong” of her, or bitchy or whatnot, because damn it she SHOULD like you back after all the friendly shit you did for her! This is the part that makes you sound entitled and emotionally stunted, especially when you decide that this is an “all women liking douchebags” thing.

That, and keeping up the facade that you’re interested in a platonic friendship when you’re not. If someone turns you down but you accept her invitation to “still be friends,” that’s on YOU. Nobody’s forcing you to keep listening to stories about her ex or buying her drinks. If you choose to keep pretending to be her platonic friend, she’s WEIRDLY going to think that you’re her platonic friend! It’s not her responsibility to read your mind and learn that you’re still not over her (assuming you ever really asked her out in the first place) and give in to your undying love.

Not everyone you like is going to like you back, and if you can’t handle that, then for fuck’s sake don’t try to use platonic friendship as some weird conspiratorial way to get laid. If you do, then that’s also on YOU. Just be friends with people that you want to be friends with. And yes, sometimes you develop feelings during a friendship (shit happens); but if that happens to you, just let them know and accept their answer like an adult. If this ruins the friendship, then so be it; don’t pretend to be over something that you’re not and then blame the other person when that causes things to turn out weird.

This is simple shit, people. Jesus.

News flash Nice Guys: if you make the advance and get rebuked, then guess what? You’re still friends! Don’t turn into an entitled troll.

I’m noticing a trend here. If anyone makes a valid argument to the points that are brought up in the article, they are down voted like they are being shamed for having that opinion. Its not a far cry from the realm of belief that this came off somewhat preachy and can be interpreted as generalizing all guys as only befriending girls for the end result of bedding them or giving the impression that guys can’t befriend girls and stay friends if things don’t go their way. That is kinda the impression I got, and anyone that whistleblows the article isn’t some person that is saying ‘Entitlement is right, so stop being prudes about it’, its just someone’s interpretation of it and they shouldn’t be put on blast for it.

Also anytime you start a response with “I remember this one time…” or something like that and go into saying men are stupid for trying to defend themselves from a generalized statement that doesn’t apply to everyone, it is going to end up being an irrelevant argument. Now saying its certain guys? That is more fair to the guys that don’t do that. Its almost like saying ‘Women wear revealing clothes not because they look good in them, but because they want some hot guy to give them the d.’ Relatively equal levels of obnoxious and terrible in one fell swoop.

tl;dr I criticized the article, and will be getting down voted for it.

lol, what a steaming heap of misandry I stumbled into. Look at all these bitter, man-hating, self-entitled white female hipsters! With tags like “Girl Power” and “Men are Disgusting,” the author has really given great insight on how she has failed to connect with the other gender. But, judging by the looks and attitudes of both the author and the people leaving comments, I can understand why all are so bitter. No doubt a real man wouldn’t want anything to do with any of you, so it’s no surprise that you’ve only attracted the most pathetic and downtrodden genre of men. Water seeks its own level. But you know, have fun pointing the finger at everything but yourself in life.

I think you’ve mis-characterized the Friend Zone. I agree entirely with what you’re saying: a woman isn’t obliged to put out simply because a man or love interest is nice to her.

Gripes about the “friend zone” stem from the fact that women won’t say “I don’t have any romantic interest in you” but will happily make the excuse that their male suitors are “such good friends” in order to avoid delivering the truth. When a woman tells a guy that she doesn’t see him romantically because he’s “such a good friend”, the real insult is that she doesn’t respect him enough to be sincere and claim outright that a romantic relationship isn’t what she wants.

I tried reading your text, but all I see is generalizations. Sorry. Also, “Girl Power” and “Men Are Disgusting” tags, seriously?

I like how this article is all about how guys just want sex and when we treat women nice it’s really all we want. I bet you the majority of these friend zoned guys didn’t in any way try to pressure a woman into sexual activity. Maybe when they ask you to go out with them they really just want to be in a relationship with you. The sexual activity is just a nice bonus. Also, with tags like men are disgusting, love sucks and girl power I can see where you get the idea that all men want is sex.

Also, I like how the author starts out by talking about how girls are under no obligation to return romantic feelings (which is true) but then says that they are made to feel like shit for not sleeping with them. It seems like the author thinks that romantic feelings and sexual desire is the same thing. Wouldn’t that be exactly what they’re criticizing men for?

Also, the rampant generalization is terrible. You’ve taken one piece of anecdotal evidence and used it to rationalize how all men who believe they’re friend zoned just wants sex from you. Also, you make it sound like all men are nice because they just want sex.

Just another new-age feminist talking out her ass. Tell me what equality she’s fighting for besides bitching about the “friendzone”. It’s interesting to me why feminists have recently been so against the friendzone social phenomenon.

“a Nice Guy thinks if he puts in the effort to be friends and listens to a girl talk about her relationships, then she owes him sex.”

Dumbest thing I’ve read. No guy (perhaps, a very few) would do the above for just sex. In fact, she confuses the whole thing with just sex. I’ve been friendzoned before. I’ve even been friendzoned after sex. Simply, the times I was friendzoned, was when I was trying to date a girl.

The writer clearly doesn’t understand the basics of human sexuality and evolution. Losing an interested mate, is defeating for the man. If it he blames himself entirely, he puts doubt in his skill which will only dampen said skills.

Women don’t have to “hunt” for men, unless they’re on the low end of perceived value. It’s significantly easier being the women, as long as they maintain a certain value. This blogger just wants more power, because shes a cunttrap. She wants to be able to turn down a fleet of men, and make them think it’s all their fault all of the time. Psychopath. #menaredisgusting #seriouslythatsyourtag?

and this is why men are packing up and not dating anymore. women, you can now date yourselves and have your pity parties. it is after all, men taking all he risks in starting relationships, we are the ones approaching. lets try for a day when all women have to be the initiators… not so nice is it huh!?

While I’m sure there are men who play nice for sex I really think you are characterizing this wrong. Men put a lot of emotional investment into women not because they want to sleep with women they want a shot at romance and love. After being told for years the secret to a woman’s heart is to listen have fun and make her laugh and she’ll love you, men are still baffled at how doing exactly what women say they want still manages to get them no where in romance.

To be honest if a woman invested that much time to cheer me up and try to make me laugh and was an awesome friend even if I wasn’t physically attracted to her I would feel obligated to give her a shot at being the love of my life if she were to tell me that she was actually attracted to me. I don’t know but I would feel bad if I didn’t honor her efforts and at least give her a shot.

That Mr. “Nice” Guy sounds like he actually Loved you and you don’t seem to get that emotionally he really did care about you. He probably felt you were the one and that’s why he was desperate to be with you. I don’t know maybe you asked him how serious he was with his attraction and maybe he said he just wanted to sleep with you but honestly your story doesn’t seem to indicate it. He was still a jackass for not dropping it after you clearly said no but It’s not very nice to make a guy more of a pig then he probably was.

That’s quite the interesting article you have over here, and you make pretty valid points, many of which I agree with, although I disagree with you on the existence of the so called “friend-zone” (also I don’t agree with the definition given by the urban dictionary at all as to what this zone is). Basically the way I see it, the friend-zone is the zone where two people who interact with each other find themselves in when only one party feels romantically (this word is key because the true friend-zone is not about getting laid) attracted to the other, often without the other “romantically uninterested” party even knowing it is inside said zone.

In fact, the friend-zone does not only apply to men/boys but it also applies to women/girls.

The friend-zone is very often a unilateral creation, resulting from the lack of risk taking in the romantically interested party’s part. Risk taking here meaning: being transparent enough with their feelings so that the other party can understand that there is indeed a romantic attraction! So what happens is that the romantically interested party suffers from not being forward enough by suffering from the other’s party perception that the friendship is purely platonic. And since the romantically interested party can only portray their interested by being extra-friendly (out of fear of the risk rejection), the situation drags on (after all people don’t usually ask themselves if their friends actually like them and plus who doesn’t want an always present and ready to do anything friend) until the romantically interested party becomes frustrated with the situation. Frustration leads to sadness and depression (not rage/anger) because the feelings become unbearable, especially if a bad third party is introduced. Emphasis on bad because as the romantically interested party this is that famous situation in which the one you like is not only dating someone else, but will also come cry to you when he/she gets hurt by said “bad third party”.

A friend-zone becomes bilateral when the romantically interested party finally puts forth his/her feelings only to be denied, and only “if” after the denial, the party decides to ask for space and is vilified by the romantically uninterested party because of it “or” guilt-tripped into maintaining said friendship. If this does happen, then anger eventually “almost” always ensues because people who are used eventually always find out.

I think the author’s problem is not with the friend-zone as much as it is with the sleazy douchebags a.k.a. Nice Guys (with capital N and G) who twist the concept of friend-zone to vilify the uninterested party. The difference is that these Nice Guys don’t care about romance, all they want is the sex, so they make up a faux version of the friend-zone, which is the one defined in the urban dictionary. Basically a way for lesser men to direct their childish anger away from their own failures onto women.

“women are under no obligation to return romantic feelings for a man and the existence of a “friend zone” suggests otherwise”
That is not how I understand the whole “friend zone” thing. This women at work has a crush on me but I have no interest in her outside of being friends…. she has been put in the “friend zone”.

Or that is how I always thought about it.

I like how you repeatedly describe the friendzone’d guy’s desires as explicitly sexual and vaginal, because men, even the ones pouting about not being with the “one”, only think about that when they say they’d like to be with somebody.

I believe a distinction should be made between those men who are friend zoned for wanting sex and being treated equally by women and those men who are taken advantage of by women and really want a lasting relationship.

Perhaps I’m the only one to whom this occurs, but it would seem to me that there is a difference between a man being “nice” and engaging with a man in date-like behaviors. For example, being “nice” might include saying “Hello there, Mildred. How was your weekend? That’s nice, have a terrific day.” However, inviting Mildred out for drinks where the “nice” guy picks up the tab, and talking about topics of emotional significance and relating on a personal level on a somewhat regular basis is sort of dating. The “nice” guy’s principal sin was acting in a way that conforms to the egalitarian ideals of, well, feminism by not “being a man” and “making his move.” Getting the impression that casual “drinks after work” dating should progress into more formal coupling and sex is not that outrageous a concept.

If you are attracted to a girl and make a move immediately then: “how can you be attracted to someone you don’t even know? You shallow superficial bastard only interested in her looks”. If you are attracted to a girl but get to know her before making a move then: “you are a manipulative asshole pretending to be her friend when really you want more”. Can’t win, can we?

This guy is a Damm Moron…….. Not every dude who wants to be more than friends but end up in the friendzone only think about girls as sex toys or wants there Dong Sucked. If so we could just pay for it or go on a drunk night out and sleep with alot of different girls. When we want to be more than friends with some one we are feeling the beginning stages of FALLING IN LOVE….Please Grow up really….

This article does make some good points, but it over complicates.
firstly it assumes that sex is the only thing the man is after, maybe we liked your personality which is why we decided to become friends with you in the first place.

Secondly it assumes we immediately knew that we liked you, before even getting to know you.
You can fall for a friend, if that friend then turns around and says hey, I don’t like you back, then the correct course of action in my view is to take a break from the friendship, otherwise you are bound to build some sort of resentment. (YES I KNOW THAT’S UNFAIR BUT EMOTIONS AREN’T ALWAYS LOGICAL)

What is not OK is to assume the woman owes the man a relationship, she owes him nothing.

its also wrong to keep someone, of any gender on the hook, you should be clear with them.

Saying that the friend zone doesn’t exist is just plain stupid because, starting a romantic relationship is a high risk strategy, and sometimes it doesn’t make sense to risk a good friendship, that deterrent is what constitutes the friend zone, and it is not unique to either gender. However studies show that men are more likely to fall for their friends, which is why you have wrongly assumed that bitterness after rejection is a solely male phenomenon

I am guilty of the offences on both sides of the friend zone, so maybe I’m uniquely qualified to CUT EVERYONE (both men and women) A BIT OF FUCKING SLACK.
And the “men are disgusting” tag? go fuck yourself you self entitled bastard, you’re just as bad as the chauvinists.

Reading between the lines you just look like a cock tease to me, if you’re constantly accused of leading people on (this doesn’t stand if this is only an isolated incident) then I if I were you I would look at why people keep getting that impression. just a piece of advice, if a guy tells you he has feelings for you bleating on to him about how badly your relationship with your boyfriend is going while sucking down free drinks he’s brought you probably isn’t the best idea.

Why do all the men on this forum seem to think women are some all powerful, mind controlling, sexual machines that are out to get them and use them because they see them as inferior or something?

I also find it fascinating how many men on here are complaining about being friendzoned by women that go for the jerks. However, they also complain about the women of their own affections using them and showing clear disregard for their feelings. They both sound like the same kind of people to me. You have to understand that everyone can be a poor judge of character, men and women alike. People that are interested in only getting sex or something beneficial to themselves out of a relationship are usually pretty skilled in using people and making their feelings seem genuine.

I find the generalization that women go for jerks even more annoying than the generalizations about the friendzone. I find this annoying because men and women both go for the jerks. Look at all the men on this forum who have obviously had some bad relationships with women who were only out to use them. Better yet, think back to the girls that were usually popular in high school, and usually continue to be popular even after that. I think it has something to do with how much people are drawn to others with power, but the power that these women who could have anything at the drop of a hat and these men that always seem to steal the woman away from a guy who genuinely wants to win her heart is only gained through the ability to control and a lot of us are blinded to that.

A lot of women for instance don’t want a man who they might find weak so they friendzone the nice guys and go for one of these guys who might seem strong, but only have that power through controlling others. It’s not going to be long before she’s feeling controlled as well, but as everyone on here has stated it’s not that easy to leave someone that you have developed feelings for.

What guys and girls alike need to do is develop a strength of their own. Seem powerful to others and that will draw them to you, but be powerful in your own way. Sometimes silence is power, sometimes people find spirituality to be powerful, some people find art to be powerful. But if your powerful in your own way, then other people who are interested in that kind of power are going to be drawn to you. Be powerful in you’re sexuality for instance and you’re going to find like-minded people. However I wouldn’t suggest building a relationship off of this as, well your significant other is going to be powerful in their sexuality so you’re cruising for a bruising.

I know I’ve seemed to gone astray from the friendzone topic, I just suddenly got the urge to write that and so I did, but this is relative. It is relative because a passion for life is very attractive. I have plenty of guy friends, who I am positive only want to remain friends however, that are kind to me but I don’t think I would consider dating as their passion in life is very lacking. They are the kind of person who I could see relying on their significant other to provide them with a passion in life, and if that significant other left I could see them going off the deep end. And I could not be in a relationship with someone like this not because I’m planning on breaking their heart in the future and I don’t want to be responsible for that, but because being the only thing providing their source of happiness in life would be completely miserable. If we ever got into a mutual argument I know I would always be the one becoming the bad guy.

This is also why I’m scared by what a lot of men (and some of the women too) on this forum are saying, because that’s exactly what they are doing, they’re blaming the other for the existence of the friendzone in the first place. The friendzone really is the result of an emotional argument; the argument “I want to be more than friends” VS “I want to remain friends.” It’s not anyone’s fault that one wants to be more than friends and the other does not. The only problem that exists is the lingering emotions after such an argument is made and whether or not one is able to move past their emotions in order to stay with the other. This also accounts for the emotions of the one who turned the other down, as I have known people to distance themselves and finally cut off contact with someone who was a friend of theirs but had romantic feelings for them and they found the relationship had become too awkward and too exhausting to continue, because the other person was always expecting more.

So I just want to clear some things up. It is no one’s fault that you were turned down. It’s not your friend’s fault, because you just weren’t what they are looking for in a relationship. You don’t give out the kind of “power” they want in a romantic relationship but one that they can connect to on a platonic level. It’s not your fault either. You have your own strengths. The sting of rejection hurts everyone, in all aspects of life; it’s going to be there. This is where you need to be powerful. You either need to be powerful and stay friends and accept that that is what you’re going to be, or you need to find the power in yourself to leave the relationship. And continue to show this strength and power even after you’ve been turned down. Understand that life is more than a big dating game. When you’re finally being passionate and honest in the way that you live and you let others see the kind of power and strength that you do have, then the right kind of people are going to be drawn to you.

^^^long long ramble that I know no one is going to read but I’m going to post anyways because I spent too long writing it…

PS: I do agree with the author of this blog though that 500 Days of Summer is a great movie and while I wasn’t even thinking about it kind of accurately depicts what I was talking about when I said to live honestly with yourself and display your own strengths and you will find that more people are drawn to you.

Find a fuck buddy instead. The majority of women these days are bullshitters anyway, so let them play their stupid-ass high school games. Just be smart enough to see through her BS and get away from her.

The original article is a disgusting example of sexism, for reasons well set out in the 349 previous comments. The discussion, though, is encouraging. People are dealing well and intelligently with a very emotional issue, including some of those who defended the original post. I was glad to find out about the Girl Writes What video. Her statements about feminists are very overgeneralized, and there is a case for saying that these “anti-friend-zone” women are not real feminists because not egalitarian. At the same time, it is interesting to see that feminist discourse can be misused this way. It is often women who are effective in objecting to sexist discourse about men. Surely we can learn to do this ourselves, though I sure don’t mind some sympathetic help.

Nice guy self-entitlement is bullshit, and here’s why.

If you feel you’re entitled to something, you don’t exert vast amounts of energy and your mental faculties trying to attain that ‘entitlement’. You expect it you be thrust upon you with little to no effort. This behavior is demonstrably NOT the kind of behavior nice guys exhibit. They work their asses off for someone, and when those feelings are not reciprocated, or are taken advantage of by the object of his affections, no fucking shit he’s going to feel dejected, maybe betrayed, and perhaps a little angry. Of course she isn’t obligated to love him, but the whole point of the anger towards the friendzone is when women lead a man on, letting him believe he’s got a chance, or that she actually may have feelings for him, only to find out she was using him, or leading him on. It’s not about failing to win a vaginal prize. It’s about being rejected by someone you thought you had a chance with, by someone you thought was very much like you, wanted the same things as you.. And that’s the truth.

Wow…….. Friend zoning causes no ill feelings toward the woman for me. I don’t expect her to like me and I certainly don’t expect her to fuck me. Sex is completely irrelevant when discussing friend zones.

The feelings being friend zoned gives me and presumably most other horrible evil nice guys are loneliness, unwantedness etc, due to not finding the COMPANIONSHIP I long for. The feelings would be the same if I was gay and got friend zoned by a dude. You may argue that friendship is a form of companionship that I should be grateful for. Why? Why should I be happy to talk to this woman about her new boyfriend, while constantly longing for her love? Love, not sex. Nothing physical is required. If I get horny, I’ll have a wank. I can sort that out myself. But I can’t substitute the love, respect, caring and companionship that one can only get from a close relationship with a human being. That’s why I cry at night thinking about her. Because I’m alone, and because I have feelings for HER, not for her vagina. I’m sure her vagina’s lovely but it’s hardly a priority.

If I saw women merely as a prize, why would I even care about being her friend? She’s just one woman right? One out of 3 billion potential ‘prizes’. Anyone of them could fill the sexual void in my life, so why the fuck would I care if one specific woman doesn’t want me?

It’s not because I want to fuck her.

It’s because, believe it or not, I like her!

Is a man legitimately having feelings for a woman really so unfathomable to you??

You’re not a feminist.
You’re just a man-hating sexist.

P.S. I’ve never complained about being friend zoned. It’s only happened to me once, and yeah it made me feel like shit. But it didn’t make me see her any differently. I sent no negative vibes her way. She’s still that one of a kind sweet hearted angel she always was in my eyes. She’s happy with her new man (who btw is a nice guy), and I’m happy for her. Quite jealous yes, but glad she’s happy.

So, I’m a nice guy.
I’m lonely.
I’m sad.
I want something more than just friendship.

How exactly is that a problem?

Too long. Did not read.

I don’t believe how you can be so feminist. If you’re going to make an article like this the least you can do is look at both sides of the equation. The same way you say guys shouldn’t say ALL WOMEN are prudes, or a bitch, or leading him on, is nullified by the fact that immediately afterwards and before you use the exact same general-ism for men. Like previous commenters have stated, it’s not the fact that PEOPLE, notice how I say people, change after rejection. It’s just that you want to be with a person and when they don’t want to be with you it hurts. You’re used for comfort, and to keep them from being lonely, and may spend all of your time together but the other party doesn’t want you in the same way you want them. What someone who is friend-zoned wants is the feeling that someone WANTS them. It feels good to know that you belong to that person and that they belong to you. For example, after me and my ex broke up we became even closer. We spent more time together talked more and told each other everything. When we both started to feel that we should get back together she left for Spain saying she wanted to know if I wanted to get together again when she came back. But, when she returned she told me she was into someone else but I shouldn’t be worried because she didn’t really know him. She got to know him and threw me to the side. We stopped talking and seeing each other, I couldn’t take knowing how easily she went from wanting to be with me again to being with him only to find out he was a dick. After they broke up we started talking again, becoming even closer than we were previous. But this time there were no feelings involved, at first. She wanted a friends-with-benefits relationship. She would use me for sex, comfort, and to keep from being lonely, and I was, well, I was getting sex. After a point I told her that I was starting to feel for her and she wanted to keep with our benefits relationship but she doesn’t want to be with me. I want to point out that not only was I rejected, but I was used. I was her first for everything. Boyfriend, kiss, we lost our virginity together, yet she never fell for me like she did for him. Do you have any idea how it feels knowing that you were the person to introduce her to relationships and emotions and she never felt that for you? That every guy after you she dates has a CHANCE to be wanted by her in a way that you never could? That she might fall in love a thousand times and you’ll never be one? To know that she wants you around to comfort her, to hold her, to be there for her when she needs it and knowing that you’ll be there no matter how much it hurts you to hold her and reassure her. That you can never hold her the way you want to hold her, that if she was with you she would never be hurt again. Knowing that you are KILLING YOURSELF emotionally by being with her the way she wants you to yet still doing so because it matters more to you that she’s happy than how you feel. It HURTS to hold on, it hurts. But I know that it would hurt me more letting her go and her blaming herself so I stay. I’d do anything she asked me. and I know it kills her knowing I stick around for her when she believes it would be easier for me to leave. Truthfully I think about it a lot. Sometimes I think about leaving and think of actually acting on it but I don’t. I’d gladly sacrifice my happiness so she could be happy. The only thing I’ve ever lied to her about is how I feel about her. I tell her I don’t so her mind would be free. Bu if lying keeps her happy then I’m happy to do it.

Are you fucking dumb? Majority of the time in a 1 on 1 type social situation where a guy is “listening” to you complain about your dumb fucking ex boyfriend or “acts” interested in the boring shit you have to say, wants to have sex with you. Quit your bullshit whining about how friend zones are bullshit and use your brain. Guys have 2 types of friends, their bros and their friends who are “girls” that are usually girls who are already taken by one of their friends or girls who he doesn’t want to fuck. And in that situation where he doesn’t want to get with her he won’t spend his night buying you drinks or listening to your bullshit. There is one exception to this and that is if you have a life long strong friendship with this guy that is different. But in the situation you were bitching about where the guy tried to kiss you it didn’t sound that way. I agree with one thing you said though and that is a girl is either interested in your or she is not, but that doesn’t mean the friend zone does not exist, cause technically yes, if a girl just wants to be friends than you are fucking friend zoned. What is the point of this article?

And this is why men will forever be stuck in the friend zone. Women don’t believe it exists.

Nice Guys finish last, they know this. They also learn via the “friend zone” how many…to be blunt… dumb skanks they’ve avoided. Heck some even become therapist :D but the fact is the one in that zone is probably a perfect match for you(and one willing to better themselves for it).

I know I heard about it all the time. But hey what its matter really you got all the emotional support and undying love you needed at the time. You could have gotten a puppy, but maybe its just easier to not cut ties with a “that friend” then put down a dog.

The friend zone is most certainly real. I am not however talking about only sex. You women like to see us men as all being only focused on one thing, “sex”. When dealing with these guys who get friendzoned, “at least in my case”, They’re typically not pursuing you only for sex, I’m just pursuing a relationship but, my friend-zone is just not even being given that chance. I’m not entirely shy and introverted only about 1/2 the time and I ask girls out, but I always either get shot down on the spot or blown off later. I dunno I’m not blaming women I’m sure there’s something I can do differently. And while I do agree that my putting in time listening to her problems/being an overall supportive nice guy does not entitle me to access your panties however on the flip side, women sleeping with a guy does not entitle you to have us run errands or listen to you tell us what a bitch Cassandra is for an hour, or buying you things.

“He gave me emotional support when I needed it so now I owed him sexual intimacy. How NICE of him.” notice how you said he gave you emotional support when you “needed” it. well us men thanks to our brain being wired the way it is ever since about the age 12-14 years old we had new lines of code written to our brain that makes it a top level priority to seek out and have sex with sexually appealing women. Again not saying that women are by any means required to have sex with anybody, however we men operate pretty simply and in our head everything should work as a sort of quid pro quo, We handle any dirty or generally unappealing jobs and provide emotional support and you ladies provide us with intimacy.

Finally can you really blame us nice guys for coming to the conclusion that women only like bad boys and love being treated like shit? 99% of nice guy interaction with you women focuses on you complaining about your current boyfriend and how he doesn’t acknowledge you/treats you like shit/is cheating on you etc, etc. This is usually followed by a conversation that goes along the lines of the girl telling us how she wishes her boyfriend would be more like us and treat them right, but for some reason it never occurs to you that there is a man standing right next to you who legit cares about you and would never cheat/hit/ignore you because we were brought up to know that you don’t do those things.

wow didn’t mean that to be such a long response. While I do disagree on some points of your article I still found it to be a good read with many good supporting points.

The guy has been told if he has romantic feelings toward someone he needs to be nice, and patient. Color me surprised that he follows a broken script that he gets frustrated and confused. And you Little Miss Entitled, you resent him, hold him in contempt for being nice to you because you don’t see he have been sincere with his kindness–to do so it could be YOUR fault. In my opinion, no one was really to blame. You weren’t attracted to him, and he didn’t know why he couldn’t prove his value and worth to you following a false courtship model. And you mock him.

To the poster of this blog, your argument is irrelevant. You can’t assume the things you do based off one friendzone incident. See it from this perspective. Your drinking buddy tried to kiss you, and the first thing your mind jumps to, is sex. That may not have been on his mind at first, but after your rejection, his opinion of you was dampened by your lack of interest towards him and he saw you as a sex object from then on in. Rejection on assumption of non-interest towards a commitance of further in depth feelings results in you becoming nothing more than a human in their eyes.

The man could have had genuine feelings for you, but your rejection of him may have caused him to see you in a different light, in which, if you weren’t in it for sex, then he wasn’t interested. Deferral to sex in a man’s mentality is a mans way of coping with rejection. Unlike women who run off and cry about rejection or complain to friends about being rejected, men aren’t emotionally effected in the same way. They get upset and bottle it, causing a combination of depression and frustration at rejection to develop into sexual tension. It’s not your fault but “I don’t see you as sexually attractive as i want in a partner” is a better response than ” I only see you as a friend”. Think on this before you act again. Being blunt in this fashion could prevent further outbreaks of a male being determined to get you in bed could be avoided in the future.

I see a lot of bitter comments on this and it is sad.

I am a guy and I have long thought the same thing about ‘friend zone’. it’s a bunch of entitled, Game playing BS. Guys who think you have to get to the ‘goal’ or the whole game is pointless.

Don’t play games. If you are a nice guy, be nice. To everybody. All The Time. Without expectation. You know what is the worst that can come of this? A lot of friends.

There is kind of difference between jerks who give drinks and except to get laid, and nice guy that is being nice because he is hoping very possible for a romantic relationship and this thing that I read in books, hear singed songs, and I heard there is books about it too. This thing called love.